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	<title>Comments for Outside the Echosphere</title>
	<atom:link href="http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>A Democratic perspective on the Obama campaign from outside the echosphere</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:23:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Is Bushism Killing the Republican Party? by Kirk</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/21/is-bushism-killing-the-republican-party/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=8#comment-13</guid>
		<description>I think it highly probable that the Democrats will win the white house in 2008.

Assuming that&#039;s true, I expect 2010 to be another run of True Believers.  I know I&#039;ve mentioned elsewhere, but I&#039;ll say it again - there&#039;s the tendency (on both sides of the divide) to say something to the effect of, &quot;we lost because we weren&#039;t True to Our Beliefs, and so Our People just didn&#039;t turn out.&quot;  It&#039;s been very prevalent among Republicans during the past decade (Kansas, California) but not absent in the Democratic party.  That said, 2010 will be the fight of the True Believers.

2012 might be the last True Believer fight - I&#039;m just not certain, yet.  If it is, it will concentrate in the presidential primary to challenge Obama.  It would be tremendously easy to believe that would be the collapse of the Republican party, but I don&#039;t think so.  I think instead it&#039;ll be the collapse of it as it is, and the New Guard will begin to take hold.

The GOP won&#039;t go away unless the Old Guard can hold in 2012, and hold so strong that it forces the New Guard to join someone else.  Thing is, I just think it unlikely.

2014 is the year we see.  Either we see a new breed of GOP candidates, or we see a clear duality (or more) within the Dems, or we see a strong (though small) third party getting seats.  All are possible - in fact, none are mutually exclusive, though the likelihood of any two or all three happening is small.  Still, if the GOP is going to crack that&#039;s the year we know for certain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it highly probable that the Democrats will win the white house in 2008.</p>
<p>Assuming that&#8217;s true, I expect 2010 to be another run of True Believers.  I know I&#8217;ve mentioned elsewhere, but I&#8217;ll say it again &#8211; there&#8217;s the tendency (on both sides of the divide) to say something to the effect of, &#8220;we lost because we weren&#8217;t True to Our Beliefs, and so Our People just didn&#8217;t turn out.&#8221;  It&#8217;s been very prevalent among Republicans during the past decade (Kansas, California) but not absent in the Democratic party.  That said, 2010 will be the fight of the True Believers.</p>
<p>2012 might be the last True Believer fight &#8211; I&#8217;m just not certain, yet.  If it is, it will concentrate in the presidential primary to challenge Obama.  It would be tremendously easy to believe that would be the collapse of the Republican party, but I don&#8217;t think so.  I think instead it&#8217;ll be the collapse of it as it is, and the New Guard will begin to take hold.</p>
<p>The GOP won&#8217;t go away unless the Old Guard can hold in 2012, and hold so strong that it forces the New Guard to join someone else.  Thing is, I just think it unlikely.</p>
<p>2014 is the year we see.  Either we see a new breed of GOP candidates, or we see a clear duality (or more) within the Dems, or we see a strong (though small) third party getting seats.  All are possible &#8211; in fact, none are mutually exclusive, though the likelihood of any two or all three happening is small.  Still, if the GOP is going to crack that&#8217;s the year we know for certain.</p>
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		<title>Comment on McCain Campaign: Sitzkrieg? by inigomontoyas</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/mccain-campaign-sitzkrieg/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>inigomontoyas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=6#comment-10</guid>
		<description>I believe the cliche line is:  It&#039;s quiet...too quiet.  

On the other hand, they really appear to be disorganized, or at least that&#039;s the vibe I get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the cliche line is:  It&#8217;s quiet&#8230;too quiet.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, they really appear to be disorganized, or at least that&#8217;s the vibe I get.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by inigomontoyas</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/about/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>inigomontoyas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Inigo Montoya my nom de political commentary.  I post on rare occasion on DailyKos and rather more frequently on MyDD under that name.  I read a lot more sites than that but rarely post on any of them.  For this blog, I had to add an &quot;s&quot; because the singular form of InigoMontoya was not available.    I use the pseudonym because not all of my clients might approve of my poltical views...the country has separation of church and state, I practice separation of business and politics, though it&#039;s a joy when I do discover my clients (or my manager!) are on the same political page.

I&#039;m more or less a life-long Democrat though I did work for John Anderson during the 1980 campaign.

The older I get, the more like a curmudgeon I get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Inigo Montoya my nom de political commentary.  I post on rare occasion on DailyKos and rather more frequently on MyDD under that name.  I read a lot more sites than that but rarely post on any of them.  For this blog, I had to add an &#8220;s&#8221; because the singular form of InigoMontoya was not available.    I use the pseudonym because not all of my clients might approve of my poltical views&#8230;the country has separation of church and state, I practice separation of business and politics, though it&#8217;s a joy when I do discover my clients (or my manager!) are on the same political page.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m more or less a life-long Democrat though I did work for John Anderson during the 1980 campaign.</p>
<p>The older I get, the more like a curmudgeon I get.</p>
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		<title>Comment on McCain Campaign: Sitzkrieg? by Student Guy</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/mccain-campaign-sitzkrieg/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Student Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=6#comment-8</guid>
		<description>You are added to my blogroll now and are a daily read of mine.  Please keep an honest perspective of the Democratic race, it is good motivation for Obama supporters like to work harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are added to my blogroll now and are a daily read of mine.  Please keep an honest perspective of the Democratic race, it is good motivation for Obama supporters like to work harder.</p>
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		<title>Comment on McCain Campaign: Sitzkrieg? by DCDemocrat</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/mccain-campaign-sitzkrieg/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>DCDemocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=6#comment-7</guid>
		<description>It seems hard to believe that the Republicans would pass up an opportunity to hit a widow or kick an orphan.  It&#039;s hard to understand exactly what they&#039;ve been doing since last February.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems hard to believe that the Republicans would pass up an opportunity to hit a widow or kick an orphan.  It&#8217;s hard to understand exactly what they&#8217;ve been doing since last February.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Obama&#8217;s cup 7/8 full or 1/2 empty? by DCDemocrat</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/is-obamas-cup-78-full-or-12-empty/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>DCDemocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=5#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I turned 14 on November 23, 1972.  I was a 13-year-old working to make George McGovern president.  I would say, though, that Humphrey&#039;s loss in 1968, when I was eight and devoted to him, was my defining moment.  If I count correctly, we have lost seven of the 12 elections of my lifetime.  Two of them I was too young to understand, so in a sense, we have lost seven of the 10 elections of my lifetime.  I am so tired of this.  I hope Barack Obama turns out to be the sharpie politician he sometimes (not always) seems to me to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I turned 14 on November 23, 1972.  I was a 13-year-old working to make George McGovern president.  I would say, though, that Humphrey&#8217;s loss in 1968, when I was eight and devoted to him, was my defining moment.  If I count correctly, we have lost seven of the 12 elections of my lifetime.  Two of them I was too young to understand, so in a sense, we have lost seven of the 10 elections of my lifetime.  I am so tired of this.  I hope Barack Obama turns out to be the sharpie politician he sometimes (not always) seems to me to be.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Obama&#8217;s cup 7/8 full or 1/2 empty? by inigomontoyas</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/is-obamas-cup-78-full-or-12-empty/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>inigomontoyas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=5#comment-5</guid>
		<description>DCD, I&#039;ve been through too many Democratic campaigns to indulge in wishful thinking.   I thought Kerry had it in 2004 but when I blocked out the Electoral College it always came down to Ohio and Ohio was always very thin...I thought we were going to get it.  And if the predominantly black communities had had the requisite number of working voting machines and trained staff we might have.   Or maybe not.  I&#039;m not a conspiracy theory buff by nature.   

I read later that one of Kerry&#039;s operatives said that Kerry outperformed their goals in Ohio; the GOP turnout was just more extraordinary.

The danger I see to Obama is among the vast majority of voters who don&#039;t read blogs and who may not even know the difference between Olberman and O&#039;Reilly...but they vote in high numbers with great regularity.

I might start a poll about one thing over at MyDD:  what was your defining political experience?   For me, it was my first election, 1972, and the 49-state ass-kicking that Nixon gave McGovern.

McGovern...Mondale...Dukakis...I&#039;d like to be on the giving end instead of the receiving end and there&#039;s no better time than now.   Clinton/Dole in &#039;96 would have been pretty good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DCD, I&#8217;ve been through too many Democratic campaigns to indulge in wishful thinking.   I thought Kerry had it in 2004 but when I blocked out the Electoral College it always came down to Ohio and Ohio was always very thin&#8230;I thought we were going to get it.  And if the predominantly black communities had had the requisite number of working voting machines and trained staff we might have.   Or maybe not.  I&#8217;m not a conspiracy theory buff by nature.   </p>
<p>I read later that one of Kerry&#8217;s operatives said that Kerry outperformed their goals in Ohio; the GOP turnout was just more extraordinary.</p>
<p>The danger I see to Obama is among the vast majority of voters who don&#8217;t read blogs and who may not even know the difference between Olberman and O&#8217;Reilly&#8230;but they vote in high numbers with great regularity.</p>
<p>I might start a poll about one thing over at MyDD:  what was your defining political experience?   For me, it was my first election, 1972, and the 49-state ass-kicking that Nixon gave McGovern.</p>
<p>McGovern&#8230;Mondale&#8230;Dukakis&#8230;I&#8217;d like to be on the giving end instead of the receiving end and there&#8217;s no better time than now.   Clinton/Dole in &#8216;96 would have been pretty good.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is Obama&#8217;s cup 7/8 full or 1/2 empty? by DCDemocrat</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/is-obamas-cup-78-full-or-12-empty/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>DCDemocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=5#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Money is the mother&#039;s milk of politics, but it doesn&#039;t always buy victory.  Obama outspent Hillary by colossal amounts in places like Texas, Ohio, West Virginia, and Kentucky, and it didn&#039;t get him anywhere near the prize, at least in those latter three states.  That said, I do like the fact that he plans to open offices in all 50 states.  An anomalous poll or two in an unlikely state, and the Republicans will be rushing money to places where they may not really need to spend it.  It&#039;s a good strategy on Obama&#039;s part, and I don&#039;t think Hillary would have done it.

Given how heavily Obama outspent Hillary to fight her virtually to a draw, he is going to need the money in the fall he will get.  Frankly, if Obama needs to outspend McCain 4-1 to get to 270 and not one electoral vote beyond that, my disposition will be sunny.  As George W. Bush after his loss in 2000 proved, winning isn&#039;t everything; it&#039;s the only thing.  

NPR observed something yesterday morning that I also have observed.  Obama ran up the scoreboard in February, and then he seemed content to skate till the end.  That might work in the Democratic nominating process, but it would be a disaster in the General Election.  In October, the numbers sometimes have a way of crystallizing.  You damn well can bet that the Republicans have a number of moves they are planning for that period that they hope will be fatal.  I don&#039;t think our nominee has the taste for blood.  I am not sanguine that he will return fire.  I do believe he will respond quickly, but can he deliver a fatal blow to McCain?  Maybe he doesn&#039;t need to.

Another strategy of Obama&#039;s that I like is his emphasis on the youth vote.  I believe there are young white and black voters who would never have bothered to register if Hillary had been the nominee who actually will show up at the polls in November.  In fact, I am pretty sure there are some adult voters who would not have registered if Hillary had won but who will show up to vote in the fall.  This might offset some of our demographic weaknesses you mentioned.

Like I say, I&#039;ll be happy with 270.

The thing I like about what you&#039;re doing is that the Democratic blogosphere was utterly delusional in 2004.  There were many signs that we were going to lose, but we spun them into meaninglessness.  I promised myself I would never fall victim again to wishful thinking in politics.  This site is a step in the right direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Money is the mother&#8217;s milk of politics, but it doesn&#8217;t always buy victory.  Obama outspent Hillary by colossal amounts in places like Texas, Ohio, West Virginia, and Kentucky, and it didn&#8217;t get him anywhere near the prize, at least in those latter three states.  That said, I do like the fact that he plans to open offices in all 50 states.  An anomalous poll or two in an unlikely state, and the Republicans will be rushing money to places where they may not really need to spend it.  It&#8217;s a good strategy on Obama&#8217;s part, and I don&#8217;t think Hillary would have done it.</p>
<p>Given how heavily Obama outspent Hillary to fight her virtually to a draw, he is going to need the money in the fall he will get.  Frankly, if Obama needs to outspend McCain 4-1 to get to 270 and not one electoral vote beyond that, my disposition will be sunny.  As George W. Bush after his loss in 2000 proved, winning isn&#8217;t everything; it&#8217;s the only thing.  </p>
<p>NPR observed something yesterday morning that I also have observed.  Obama ran up the scoreboard in February, and then he seemed content to skate till the end.  That might work in the Democratic nominating process, but it would be a disaster in the General Election.  In October, the numbers sometimes have a way of crystallizing.  You damn well can bet that the Republicans have a number of moves they are planning for that period that they hope will be fatal.  I don&#8217;t think our nominee has the taste for blood.  I am not sanguine that he will return fire.  I do believe he will respond quickly, but can he deliver a fatal blow to McCain?  Maybe he doesn&#8217;t need to.</p>
<p>Another strategy of Obama&#8217;s that I like is his emphasis on the youth vote.  I believe there are young white and black voters who would never have bothered to register if Hillary had been the nominee who actually will show up at the polls in November.  In fact, I am pretty sure there are some adult voters who would not have registered if Hillary had won but who will show up to vote in the fall.  This might offset some of our demographic weaknesses you mentioned.</p>
<p>Like I say, I&#8217;ll be happy with 270.</p>
<p>The thing I like about what you&#8217;re doing is that the Democratic blogosphere was utterly delusional in 2004.  There were many signs that we were going to lose, but we spun them into meaninglessness.  I promised myself I would never fall victim again to wishful thinking in politics.  This site is a step in the right direction.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome to Outside the Echosphere by sricki</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/welcome-to-outside-the-echosphere/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>sricki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=3#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Hey! Thanks for emailing me. Right now, my enthusiasm for this election lies largely in my desire to defeat McCain. Hillary&#039;s candidacy meant a great deal to me, and while I&#039;m making a strong effort to become fully engaged in Obama&#039;s campaign, my heart isn&#039;t in it yet. I hope that will come in time. I&#039;ve already done most of my grieving over Hillary&#039;s loss. I heard one Clinton supporter saying recently that it was &quot;just a campaign&quot; and that there&#039;s no reason to grieve, but for me, there was. I suppose I was too emotionally invested. I thought I was finished feeling sick and mournful after seeing her concession speech, but part of me isn&#039;t over it yet. I watched a YouTube video a couple of days ago, and it was really beautiful -- pictures of Hillary at rallies, cheering supporters, and a sad song playing in the background. I got pretty upset while watching it.

I don&#039;t think Obama is a bad candidate -- I just thought Hillary was so much better. I&#039;ve even begun to like him on a personal level. I think he&#039;ll win. But he isn&#039;t Hillary, and I still complain about his healthcare plan. The only &quot;new politics&quot; I see is his commitment to the 50-State Strategy, and that IS important. He&#039;s a great fundraiser, too. But he obviously knows how to play dirty when he needs to, so the idea that he&#039;s stepping away from &quot;old politics&quot; is slightly... well, to put it politely, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s entirely accurate. And no one can fix the corruption in Washington in 4-8 years. It&#039;s too deeply ingrained.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey! Thanks for emailing me. Right now, my enthusiasm for this election lies largely in my desire to defeat McCain. Hillary&#8217;s candidacy meant a great deal to me, and while I&#8217;m making a strong effort to become fully engaged in Obama&#8217;s campaign, my heart isn&#8217;t in it yet. I hope that will come in time. I&#8217;ve already done most of my grieving over Hillary&#8217;s loss. I heard one Clinton supporter saying recently that it was &#8220;just a campaign&#8221; and that there&#8217;s no reason to grieve, but for me, there was. I suppose I was too emotionally invested. I thought I was finished feeling sick and mournful after seeing her concession speech, but part of me isn&#8217;t over it yet. I watched a YouTube video a couple of days ago, and it was really beautiful &#8212; pictures of Hillary at rallies, cheering supporters, and a sad song playing in the background. I got pretty upset while watching it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Obama is a bad candidate &#8212; I just thought Hillary was so much better. I&#8217;ve even begun to like him on a personal level. I think he&#8217;ll win. But he isn&#8217;t Hillary, and I still complain about his healthcare plan. The only &#8220;new politics&#8221; I see is his commitment to the 50-State Strategy, and that IS important. He&#8217;s a great fundraiser, too. But he obviously knows how to play dirty when he needs to, so the idea that he&#8217;s stepping away from &#8220;old politics&#8221; is slightly&#8230; well, to put it politely, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s entirely accurate. And no one can fix the corruption in Washington in 4-8 years. It&#8217;s too deeply ingrained.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome to Outside the Echosphere by DCDemocrat</title>
		<link>http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/welcome-to-outside-the-echosphere/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>DCDemocrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsidetheechosphere.wordpress.com/?p=3#comment-2</guid>
		<description>This is DCDemocrat, aka Beltway Dem, aka Mike Meyer.  Thanks for letting me know about your blog.  One sign have been looking for this week is how much of a bounce Obama will get in the polls as the result of cinching the nomination.  My thought has been that it would have been a lot more comfortable if we had a double digit bounce.  It doesn&#039;t appear to have happened in the week after South Dakota and Montana.  I will give it till next Saturday, because that will be a week after Hillary&#039;s endorsement.  It appears at the moment to be about five to seven points.  I am a yellow dog not a true blue Obama supporter, and as a yellow dog, I really hope the bounce goes to 10 or more points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is DCDemocrat, aka Beltway Dem, aka Mike Meyer.  Thanks for letting me know about your blog.  One sign have been looking for this week is how much of a bounce Obama will get in the polls as the result of cinching the nomination.  My thought has been that it would have been a lot more comfortable if we had a double digit bounce.  It doesn&#8217;t appear to have happened in the week after South Dakota and Montana.  I will give it till next Saturday, because that will be a week after Hillary&#8217;s endorsement.  It appears at the moment to be about five to seven points.  I am a yellow dog not a true blue Obama supporter, and as a yellow dog, I really hope the bounce goes to 10 or more points.</p>
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